Who is Mystery Babylon?

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Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby bibledude » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:10 am

This question I believe matters the most in biblical prophetic interpretation.
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby admin » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:25 am

I've seen 3 front runner contenders that seem feasible.

(1) The USA
(2) Vatican
(3) Jerusalem

I currently believe its the USA - but I'm not certain.
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby bibledude » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:02 am

Admin, what if I were to tell you that what you believe about this issue is what unlocks most of the biblical prophecies? Are you theologically trained?
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby admin » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:06 am

I'm not theologically trained.

I'm certainly interested in hearing what you have to say on the topic. What do you think?
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby bibledude » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:25 am

Oh good. I find that people who are theologically trained have already established denominational ready-made systems of interpretation that harm them from truly understanding the Bible for themselves. I love scholarship but never to the degree that I stop being a learner myself. It seems those trained have a tendency to be teachers and perceive themselves not needing to hear any new developments. Not all but in my experience a majority.

Thanks for your invitation to post. I'd like to share what God has shown me. I believe it truly is the truth and would like to start a dialogue where I might try and convince and bless you. I welcome your challenges and hope you can convince me otherwise if possible. If I am wrong I want to know. If you are committed to the Bible, I think you will have eyes to see it. I have a list of "proofs" that I'd like to start off with because like I said, this issue opens up so much more in the Bible as you will see. I'll keep it short so we can deal with each argument as we go. I don't want turn you away with long text.

My first proposition is that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon. Here is the first argument for that position.

1. Jerusalem and Babylon kills saints and prophets.

- Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."

- Luk_13:33 Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.'


*Who kills the prophets?


The Jews and the city of Jerusalem identify as both who have killed their prophets. It's consistently taught in both testaments...

- Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets..."

- Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute?

- 1Th 2:14-15 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, (15) who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind

- Matthew 23:31 "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

- Rom 11:3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."

- Neh 9:26 "Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.

- 1 Kings 19:10 He said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars and killed Your prophets with the sword And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away."

- 1 Kings 19:14 Then he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars and killed Your prophets with the sword. And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away."


More to come after you confirm or deny this..
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby admin » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:47 pm

Yes I have heard some people say that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon. Obviously there are some key scriptures that do support this idea, the ones you posted above do support this idea well. The main issues I have with Jerusalem being Mystery Babylon is the way it is described in Revelations and the extent of the Judgement God will have on it.

Rev 18:11

And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:


Rev 18: 17-19
7 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.


Rev 18: 21-23

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


So there are 2 things here which pose a problem to me. Firstly the merchants of the earth would not weep the destruction of Jerusalem in its current form. Modern Jerusalem is not famous or known for being the centre of global trade, huge volumes of imports via ship etc. Secondly I find it hard to see how Jerusalem could be destroyed in the manner described in Revelations - Jesus Christ needs something to return to, Jerusalem cannot be wiped off the map, or else what is Christ going to return to, a pile of rumble? These are my 2 issues with the city of Jerusalem being Mystery Babylon.

Because of the descriptions given in revelations I believe its the USA.

.
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby bibledude » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:48 am

Your arguments actually turn out to be proofs that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon. Let me explain. The merchants are prophetic to describe the financial power that the Jews would have at the end. Right now they have three ports and have major trading status and in partnership with China, Russia ad the United States. The founders of Israel are the Rothschilds. Look up the "Balfour Declaration". They made a deal with Britain to obtain the land of Palestine after WWII. The Rothschilds today own the world's financial markets through their international banking. The Jewish elite families run the Federal Reserve and most nations money supply. They rule through their control of the money supply and fractional reserve lending or usury. That being said we see that Mystery Babylon will rule the nations of the earth in Rev 17:18. It is not yet seen what kind of power Israel will grow into as a very powerful nation. The Jewish nation has great plans. Look up "The Greater Israel Plan".

Here are some prophetic verses showing that Israel will be a very powerful nation at the end when God finally judges them.

- Lev 26:19 and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze.

- Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.

- Eze 24:21 'Say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the pride of your power, the delight of your eyes, and the yearning of your soul, and your sons and your daughters whom you left behind shall fall by the sword.

- Jer 5:27-28 As a cage is full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit. Therefore they have become great and grown rich. (28) They have grown fat, they are sleek; Yes, they surpass the deeds of the wicked; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the fatherless; Yet they prosper, And the right of the needy they do not defend.

- Eze_7:24 Therefore I will bring the worst of the Gentiles, And they will possess their houses; I will cause the pomp of the strong to cease, And their holy places shall be defiled.

- Lam 5:16 The crown has fallen from our head. Woe to us, for we have sinned!

- Ezek 7:11 Violence has grown up into a rod of wickedness. None of them shall remain, nor their abundance, nor their wealth; neither shall there be preeminence among them.

- Lam 1:1-2 How lonely sits the city that was full of people! How like a widow has she become, she who was great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces has become a slave. (2) She weeps bitterly in the night, with tears on her cheeks; among all her lovers she has none to comfort her; all her friends have dealt treacherously with her; they have become her enemies.

- Lam 1:6 From the daughter of Zion all her majesty has departed. Her princes have become like deer that find no pasture; they fled without strength before the pursuer.

- Lam 2:2-3 The Lord has swallowed up without mercy all the habitations of Jacob; in his wrath he has broken down the strongholds of the daughter of Judah; he has brought down to the ground in dishonor the kingdom and its rulers. (3) He has cut down in fierce anger all the might of Israel; he has withdrawn from them his right hand in the face of the enemy; he has burned like a flaming fire in Jacob, consuming all around.

- Hosea 1:5 At that time I’ll shatter the military strength of Israel in the Valley of Jezreel.”

- Deu 32:36 For the LORD will vindicate his people and have compassion on his servants, when he sees that their power is gone and there is none remaining, bond or free.

- Rev 17:18 And the woman you saw is the great city that has an empire over the kings of the earth."


Your second argument is the most common objection in considering whether Jerusalem can be Mystery Babylon. The destruction of Jerusalem is best understood by seeig that Jerusalem represents the Jewish people but more importantly it represents their covenant.

-Gal 4:24-25 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. (25) Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.

This covenant came with a blessing or cursing. Like us, who die under the law without Christ, Jerusalem is slated to die but it will be resurrected when the remnant receive Christ. This is why there will be a need for a "New Jerusalem". Why need a new one if the old one is good enough?

-Rom 11:26-27 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; (27) "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

A resurrection is also told to happen of the city Sodom. First, let's look at God's judgment language on Sodom and Gomorrah.

- Jer_50:40 As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities, declares the LORD, so no man shall dwell there, and no son of man shall sojourn in her.

- Zep_2:9 Therefore, as I live," declares the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "Moab shall become like Sodom, and the Ammonites like Gomorrah, a land possessed by nettles and salt pits, and a waste forever. The remnant of my people shall plunder them, and the survivors of my nation shall possess them."

Based on the same question you raised about Jerusalem being destroyed, how can Sodom ever be inhabited again? But yet we see this...

- Eze_16:53 "I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

- Eze_16:55 As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, and you and your daughters shall return to your former state.

The answer is resurrection from death. Just to be more specific, this language is also used numerously of Israel (Israel and Judah).

- Amo 5:2 "Fallen, no more to rise, is the virgin Israel; forsaken on her land, with none to raise her up."

Yet in chapter 9 of Amos we then read...

- Amo 9:14-15 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. (15) I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them," says the LORD your God.

God even considers those of Jerusalem to have sinned like Sodom.

- Jer_23:14 But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his evil; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomorrah."

Even worse!

- Eze 16:48 As I live, declares the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done.

There is so much to show you but you must have eyes to see. This is spiritually discerned from scripture and you must have a true desire to learn and not just repeat the common views. It's a step by step process of learning the Word. I hope you are willing and can read the scriptures in context for yourself. Many Christians can't sustain a heavy dialogue of the Bible and expect their pastors/professionals to have all the answers. If you want to truly start to understand this, start by reading Ezekiel chapter 16 and chapter 23 for yourself. The mainstream church today wants to see Israel as a victim of a future anti-Christ. This is not the case. The anti-christ is a tool to judge them. I can show you many verses on this but this is plenty for now.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks for responding.
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby bibledude » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:34 pm

I'm going to go ahead and share with you a list I have been collecting of scriptural connections between Jerusalem and Mystery Babylon...


1. Jerusalem kills saints and prophets.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."

Luk_13:33 Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.'

*Who kills the prophets?

The Jews and the city of Jerusalem identify as both who have killed their prophets. It's consistently taught in both testaments...

Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets..."

Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute?

1Th 2:14-15 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, (15) who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind

Matthew 23:31 "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

Rom 11:3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."

Neh 9:26 "Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.

1 Kings 19:10 He said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars and killed Your prophets with the sword And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away."

1 Kings 19:14 Then he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars and killed Your prophets with the sword. And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away."


2. "All who were “slain on the earth.”

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."

Mat 23:35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

Jer 51:49 Babylon must fall for the slain of Israel, just as for Babylon have fallen the slain of all the earth


3. Jerusalem is called the “Great City” and Babylon in called the “Great City”.


Rev 11:8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

Rev 16:19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.

Rev 17:18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth."


4. Great earthquake to hit Jerusalem at the end.


Rev 16:19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.

Rev 11:13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Eze 38:18-20 But on that day, the day that Gog shall come against the land of Israel, declares the Lord GOD, my wrath will be roused in my anger. (19) For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. (20) The fish of the sea and the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the field and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the people who are on the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence. And the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.


5. Jerusalem’s destruction details foretold.


Rev 17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire,

Eze 16:38-41 “And I will judge you as women who break wedlock or shed blood are judged; I will bring blood upon you in fury and jealousy. I will also give you into their hand, and they shall throw down your shrines and break down your high places. They shall also strip you of your clothes, take your beautiful jewelry, and leave you naked and bare. They shall also bring up an assembly against you, and they shall stone you with stones and thrust you through with their swords. They shall burn your houses with fire, and execute judgments on you in the sight of many women; and I will make you cease playing the harlot, and you shall no longer hire lovers.”


6. Bridegroom, candle and millstone of Babylon and Jerusalem will cease.

(Rev 18:22-23) And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

This is an exact match with several verses in the book of Jeremiah. All of them together are a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem. One example is found in Jer 25:10:

Jer 25:10 “Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.”

Even more interesting to me is the reason that this particular judgment would come. About five chapters later the same prediction is made again, and it says:

Jer 7:30, 34 “’For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight,’ saith the LORD: ‘They have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it…. Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.’”


7. Mystery Babylon is contrasted with the cities of the nations, which suggests that it is not a gentile nation.

Revelation 16:19 distinguishes the “great city” from the cities of the nations.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. –

Revelationcommentary.org states: “[This] is the second proof that ‘the great city’ refers to Jerusalem. "The cities of the nations" (Gentiles) is in contrast to ‘the great city (Jews).’”


8. Jerusalem and Babylon both drink from the cup of the Lord's anger.

Isai 51:17 Rouse yourself! Rouse yourself! Arise, O Jerusalem, You who have drunk from the Lord's hand the cup of His anger; The chalice of reeling you have drained to the dregs.

Eze 23:31 You have gone the way of your sister; therefore I will give her cup into your hand.

Reve 16:19 And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.


9. The many waters are not physical oceans but a metaphor...

Rev_17:15 And the angel said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages.

The nation of Israel was placed in the midst of the nations and "sits" in the middle of them...

Eze 5:5 "Thus says the Lord GOD: This is Jerusalem. I have set her in the center of the nations, with countries all around her.

Eze 38:8-12 After many days you will be mustered. In the latter years you will go against the land that is restored from war, the land whose people were gathered from many peoples upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste. Its people were brought out from the peoples and now dwell securely, all of them. (9) You will advance, coming on like a storm. You will be like a cloud covering the land, you and all your hordes, and many peoples with you. (10) "Thus says the Lord GOD: On that day, thoughts will come into your mind, and you will devise an evil scheme (11) and say, 'I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates,' (12) to seize spoil and carry off plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places that are now inhabited, and the people who were gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell at the center of the earth.

Look at these other verses that show how this prostitute is seated in the midst of peoples, multitudes and nations and languages.

Joe_3:11 Hasten and come, all you SURROUNDING nations, and gather yourselves there. Bring down your warriors, O LORD.

Joe_3:12 Let the nations stir themselves up and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; for there I will sit to judge all the SURROUNDING nations.

Zec 12:2-3 "Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the SURROUNDING peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah. (3) On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will gather against it.

Zec_12:6 "On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a blazing pot in the midst of wood, like a flaming torch among sheaves. And they shall devour to the right and to the left all the SURROUNDING peoples, while Jerusalem shall again be inhabited in its place, in Jerusalem.

Zec_14:14 Even Judah will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the SURROUNDING nations shall be collected, gold, silver, and garments in great abundance.

Isa 29:3 And I will encamp against you all around, and will besiege you with towers and I will raise siegeworks against you.

Jer 25:9 behold, I will send for all the tribes of the north, declares the LORD, and for Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants, and against all these SURROUNDING. I will devote them to destruction, and make them a horror, a hissing, and an everlasting desolation.

Eze_11:12 And ye shall know that I am the LORD: for ye have not walked in my statutes, neither executed my judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that are ROUND ABOUT YOU.

Eze_16:37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them ROUND ABOUT against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

Eze 28:24 "And for the house of Israel there shall be no more a brier to prick or a thorn to hurt them among all their NEIGHBORS who have treated them with contempt. Then they will know that I am the Lord GOD.

Eze 28:26 And they shall dwell securely in it, and they shall build houses and plant vineyards. They shall dwell securely, when I execute judgments upon all their NEIGHBORS who have treated them with contempt. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God."


Some points are mine, other sources are taken from: (http://chriswhiteministries.com/Mystery ... salem3.pdf) and (http://www.lookup.org/mysterybabylon.htm)


10. Jerusalem the whore and Babylon the whore are both arrayed in luxury.

Rev 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.

Rev 18:16 "Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!

Eze 16:10-19 I clothed you also with embroidered cloth and shod you with fine leather. I wrapped you in fine linen and covered you with silk. (11) And I adorned you with ornaments and put bracelets on your wrists and a chain on your neck. (12) And I put a ring on your nose and earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. (13) Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing was of fine linen and silk and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour and honey and oil. You grew exceedingly beautiful and advanced to royalty. (14) And your renown went forth among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect through the splendor that I had bestowed on you, declares the Lord GOD. (15) "But you trusted in your beauty and played the whore because of your renown and lavished your whorings on any passerby; your beauty became his. (16) You took some of your garments and made for yourself colorful shrines, and on them played the whore. The like has never been, nor ever shall be. (17) You also took your beautiful jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given you, and made for yourself images of men, and with them played the whore. (18) And you took your embroidered garments to cover them, and set my oil and my incense before them. (19) Also my bread that I gave you—I fed you with fine flour and oil and honey—you set before them for a pleasing aroma; and so it was, declares the Lord GOD.

Isa 3:16-26 The LORD said: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with outstretched necks, glancing wantonly with their eyes, mincing along as they go, tinkling with their feet, (17) therefore the Lord will strike with a scab the heads of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will lay bare their secret parts. (18) In that day the Lord will take away the finery of the anklets, the headbands, and the crescents; (19) the pendants, the bracelets, and the scarves; (20) the headdresses, the armlets, the sashes, the perfume boxes, and the amulets; (21) the signet rings and nose rings; (22) the festal robes, the mantles, the cloaks, and the handbags; (23) the mirrors, the linen garments, the turbans, and the veils. (24) Instead of perfume there will be rottenness; and instead of a belt, a rope; and instead of well-set hair, baldness; and instead of a rich robe, a skirt of sackcloth; and branding instead of beauty. (25) Your men shall fall by the sword and your mighty men in battle. (26) And her gates shall lament and mourn; empty, she shall sit on the ground.

Jer 4:30 And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in scarlet, that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life.


11. Double payment for sins


Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Jer 16:18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Jer 17:18 Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.

Isa 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.


12. "Come out of her my people"

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;

Isa_47:6 I was angry with my people; I profaned my heritage; I gave them into your hand; you showed them no mercy; on the aged you made your yoke exceedingly heavy.


13. The woman in the wilderness.

Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.


14.Peter says she who is in Babylon greets you. He lived in Jerusalem.

1Pe 5:13 She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.


15. Earth mourns for her.


Jer 4:28 "For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back."

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning.

Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo anymore,

Rev 18:15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,

16. I sit as Queen and no widow.

Isa 47:8 Now therefore hear this, you lover of pleasures, who sit securely, who say in your heart, "I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children":

Rev 18:7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, 'I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.'

Lam 1:1-2 How lonely sits the city that was full of people! How like a widow has she become, she who was great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces has become a slave. (2) She weeps bitterly in the night, with tears on her cheeks; among all her lovers she has none to comfort her; all her friends have dealt treacherously with her; they have become her enemies.


17. Both Jerusalem and mystery Babylon are killed by her lovers.

Rev 17:1-5 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, (2) with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk." (3) And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. (4) The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. (5) And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations."

Jer 4:30-31 And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in scarlet, that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life. (31) For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor, anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands, "Woe is me! I am fainting before murderers."

Eze 16:37 therefore, behold, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, all those you loved and all those you hated. I will gather them against you from every side and will uncover your nakedness to them, that they may see all your nakedness.
Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.

Lam 1:1-2 How lonely sits the city that was full of people! How like a widow has she become, she who was great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces has become a slave. (2) She weeps bitterly in the night, with tears on her cheeks; among all her lovers she has none to comfort her; all her friends have dealt treacherously with her; they have become her enemies.

Hos_2:13 And I will punish her for the feast days of the Baals when she burned offerings to them and adorned herself with her ring and jewelry, and went after her lovers and forgot me, declares the LORD.


18. Who is the biggest whore ever in God's eyes?

Eze 16:16 You took some of your garments and made for yourself colorful shrines, and on them played the whore. The like has never been, nor ever shall be.

Rev_17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


19. Violence and blood shed.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.

Eze 9:8-9 And while they were striking, and I was left alone, I fell upon my face, and cried, "Ah, Lord GOD! Will you destroy all the remnant of Israel in the outpouring of your wrath on Jerusalem?" (9) Then he said to me, "The guilt of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great. The land is full of blood, and the city full of injustice. For they say, 'The LORD has forsaken the land, and the LORD does not see.'

Eze 12:19 And say to the people of the land, Thus says the Lord GOD concerning the inhabitants of Jerusalem in the land of Israel: They shall eat their bread with anxiety, and drink water in dismay. In this way her land will be stripped of all it contains, on account of the violence of all those who dwell in it.


20. Mystery Babylon's evil birds contrast with Israel's good birds.

Unholy nation (Israel), godless place that rules over the nations with an evil rule.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!


Holy Israel, that rules the earth based on God's rule.

Eze 17:23 On the mountain height of Israel will I plant it, that it may bear branches and produce fruit and become a noble cedar. And under it will dwell every kind of bird; in the shade of its branches birds of every sort will nest.

Further, Jesus compares the kingdom of God with the same description.

Mat 13:31-32 He put another parable before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. (32) It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches."

Mar 4:30-32 And he said, "With what can we compare the kingdom of God, or what parable shall we use for it? (31) It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when sown on the ground, is the smallest of all the seeds on earth, (32) yet when it is sown it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden plants and puts out large branches, so that the birds of the air can make nests in its shade."

Luk 13:18-19 He said therefore, "What is the kingdom of God like? And to what shall I compare it? (19) It is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his garden, and it grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air made nests in its branches."


21. Jerusalem and Babylon destroyed by many nations.

Jer 22:5-9 But if you will not obey these words, I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation. (6) For thus says the LORD concerning the house of the king of Judah: "'You are like Gilead to me, like the summit of Lebanon, yet surely I will make you a desert, an uninhabited city. (7) I will prepare destroyers against you, each with his weapons, and they shall cut down your choicest cedars and cast them into the fire. (8) "'And many nations will pass by this city, and every man will say to his neighbor, "Why has the LORD dealt thus with this great city?" (9) And they will answer, "Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God and worshiped other gods and served them."'"

Rev 17:16-17 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, (17) for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.


22. Babylon has cities and Jerusalem has cities too.

Jer 50:31 “And the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him.”

Jer 51:43 “Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby.”

Jer 4:5-7 Declare in Judah, and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say, "Blow the trumpet through the land; cry aloud and say, 'Assemble, and let us go into the fortified cities!' (6) Raise a standard toward Zion, flee for safety, stay not, for I bring disaster from the north, and great destruction. (7) A lion has gone up from his thicket, a destroyer of nations has set out; he has gone out from his place to make your land a waste; your cities will be ruins without inhabitant.


23. Jerusalem and Babylon have the forehead of a whore.


Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, and the spring rain has not come; yet you have the forehead of a whore; you refuse to be ashamed.

Rev 17:5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations."
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Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

Postby admin » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:41 am

Very comprehensive post ! I like posts with lots of scripture quoted. You make many good points however I'm still not fully convinced for the following reasons:


1. Jerusalem is not a Great Global Importer

Presently I do not see Jerusalem as a "centre" of the worlds trade, nor a place where the worlds great merchants reside, nor a destination known as the place the worlds great merchants send the bulk of their shipments. Modern Jerusalem is nothing like this, the worlds great merchants wouldn't care at all if Jerusalem was bombed and "no more", imports to Jerusalem are tiny compared to other cities........

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... by_imports - America is the largest importer nation globally, Israel (Jerusalem) is number 44.


2. Wealthy Jews don't reside in Jerusalem

I am aware of the Rothchilds, they don't reside in Jerusalem. The financially powerful Jewish bankers do not reside in Jerusalem. In fact many of them reside in New York and Europe. Jews reside heavily in the USA, in fact there is about the same amount of Jews living in the USA as there are living in Israel. The wealthiest Jews are concentrated around 2 areas in America, Hollywood (LA) and Wall Street (NY), so that kinda makes the location of Babylon more likely to be the USA imho.


3. Babylon to be found no more at all. Christ to reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years

Also scripture says once Babylon is cast down it will be found no more at all. Compare the Jeremiah 51:60-64 prophecy given to the original literal Babylon against the future Babylon of Revelations 18:21, they are similar, both will be wiped out for ever more.

Jeremiah 51: 60-64
So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come upon Babylon, even all these words that are written against Babylon.
And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words;
Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.
And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:
And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.


Revelation 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Jesus will be setting up His millennial kingdom in Jerusalem.........right? How can Jerusalem the city be utterly destroyed and found no more at all if that's where Jesus will be setting up His throne on earth? The city of Jerusalem will be the seat of Christ's throne for 1000 years, it will be populated and thriving all that time.


4. Jerusalem judged at middle of Daniels 70th week (AOD)

Also Jerusalem is judged at the mid-point of Daniels 70th week, surrounded by the Anti-Christ Armies and then invaded - leading to the Abomination of Desolation (AOD) event. It continues to be trod underfoot 42 months thereafter. It doesn't make much sense then for Revelations later on, at the end of Daniels 70th week, to say that Babylon comes to God's remembrance to be judged.......if Jerusalem has already been invaded (judged) at the mid point of Daniels 70th week.

Luke 21: 20-24
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles
, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


This is Jerusalem's great judgement and it happens at the mid point in Daniels 70th week, while Babylon is judged at a different time, the end of Daniels 70th week.

For these reasons I still cannot see how Jerusalem could be the Mystery Babylon described in Revelation. But I greatly appreciate the effort you put into your posts, there are many great scriptures you've brought light to.
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